• We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. If you continue without changing your settings, we'll assume that you are happy to receive all cookies from this website. Read more here

Politics Today

Oldsmobile-88

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
26,948
Location
In RaWZ we trust....Amen.
We're being told that the British Army is no longer one of the top tier army's due to the serious cutting of numbers and equipment for the last couple of decades and Ben Wallace acknowleges this.
A sad state of affairs, especially as the UK spent Billions on a Aircraft Carrier that spends most of its time in dock being repaired.
 

arthur

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Aug 18, 2004
Messages
11,484
Oh dear. Krankie's completely tied herself up in knots over this. Whilst the likes of Rowling et al laugh loudly into their Horlicks....

Also on ITV News at Ten tonight

 

DB9

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
24,504
Location
Hampshire. Heart's in N Devon
Also on ITV News at Ten tonight

Strange poll this, The guy from Unherd was talking to Andrew Marr on LBC, He said although there was this overwhelming majority said they now think it was wrong to leave the EU a majority still think rejoining is not an option, Something like 57%, Basically means to me although not happy about things, it's what the majority wanted, Maybe it'll change in a generation or two but as for now we have to make the best of it. I've always said it was the actual vote, It was how any deal was done and implemented and to my mind that is what the problem is, Those in Government don't know how to do a good deal.
 

arthur

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Aug 18, 2004
Messages
11,484
Strange poll this, The guy from Unherd was talking to Andrew Marr on LBC, He said although there was this overwhelming majority said they now think it was wrong to leave the EU a majority still think rejoining is not an option, Something like 57%, Basically means to me although not happy about things, it's what the majority wanted, Maybe it'll change in a generation or two but as for now we have to make the best of it. I've always said it was the actual vote, It was how any deal was done and implemented and to my mind that is what the problem is, Those in Government don't know how to do a good deal.
They weren't allowed to do a good deal, that would have been a betrayal and "not the Brexit that the British people voted for", one of the most inane and meaningless soundbites ever uttered.
 

tavyred

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Aug 23, 2004
Messages
13,911
Strange poll this, The guy from Unherd was talking to Andrew Marr on LBC, He said although there was this overwhelming majority said they now think it was wrong to leave the EU a majority still think rejoining is not an option, Something like 57%…..
I don’t think two years is enough time to even contemplate rejoining, especially the last two years where the focus of government has been on other momentous events. I think we also need to factor in the complete constitutional hell we went through as the political class battled with each other over how (or even if) we should leave the EU. I sense the British people are in no mood to revisit those same arguments anytime soon.
In the meantime those at the extreme ends of the debate seem to have retreated to ‘Brexit is an unmitigated disaster’ on the one side and as Art suggests ‘this isn’t a proper Brexit yet’ on the other. The latter view having more validity than former in my opinion.
 

DB9

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
24,504
Location
Hampshire. Heart's in N Devon
IMF says the UK will be the only G7 nation where its economy will shrink in 2023, By 0.6%, They say it will contract even more than Russia. I'm always wary of these predictions but it's made headline news and obviously doesn't look good.
 

lamrobhero

Active member
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
1,303
Location
Hangingstone Hill
The idea of humans being self defining is fundamental. I find it difficult to believe that it is impossible to manage women safe spaces and prisons without contradicting this principle.
I don't read J K Rowling stuff is she against the principle?
 

arthur

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Aug 18, 2004
Messages
11,484
The idea of humans being self defining is fundamental. I find it difficult to believe that it is impossible to manage women safe spaces and prisons without contradicting this principle.
I don't read J K Rowling stuff is she against the principle?
Humans have always "self defined" or "identified as" as the modern terminology has it. And what does that mean? It means, basically, how people feel about themselves. But why must this suddenly have legal status attached to it? Why must people's feelings about themselves suddenly need to be validated by society at large? Does this not border on self indulgent narcissism? My response to I feel "I'm ......" can range from "that's very interesting" to "I can't recall being at the meeting when it was decided I should give a feck.."

Personally I don't identify as anything. People can see what colour and sex I am, tell by the sound of my voice what background I have and observe from my behaviour that I am heteosexual and able bodied, and I will happily put these on a form if I'm asked. But they don't give me a sense of who I am. This is because I sit at the top of the discrimination tree so my, sex, class, sexual orientation and ability have never been an issue for me. But if I were black, female, gay or disabled these would be major factors in how I felt about myself in relation to the rest of society. And equally, if I felt I was born in the wrong body, or did not feel comfortable conforming to gender norms, then this would be a huge part of my identity

As Hermann has correctly pointed out sex is biological and gender is a social construct. The law in this country is currently based on sex - if you have a scrotum and penis you are male and if you have ovaries and a vagina you are female. It is possible to transition from one to the other via complex and difficult surgery, but trans women by and large have not done this, so they remain, legally, men. This is a separate issue from their gender, or how they define themselves.

There have been people who do not conform to society imposed gender norms since the dawn of time, and all power to them; they contribute to the richness and diversity of society. If someone with a penis and beard wants to wear a dress, be called Susan, addressed as Ms and be accepted by society at large on these terms then they should be - it seems gratuitiously unpleasant not to grant them this simple request. But it is a huge leap to say that this person is a woman, and can use women only spaces and participate in women's sport, just because they feel they are. Yet this is a leap taken by a surprisingly large number of intelligent people who regard any discussion of the matter as hateful and therefore verboten. I do hope we come out of the other side of this and ask ourselves serious questions about how this was allowed to happen....
 

lamrobhero

Active member
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
1,303
Location
Hangingstone Hill
Humans have always "self defined" or "identified as" as the modern terminology has it. And what does that mean? It means, basically, how people feel about themselves. But why must this suddenly have legal status attached to it? Why must people's feelings about themselves suddenly need to be validated by society at large? Does this not border on self indulgent narcissism? My response to I feel "I'm ......" can range from "that's very interesting" to "I can't recall being at the meeting when it was decided I should give a feck.."

Personally I don't identify as anything. People can see what colour and sex I am, tell by the sound of my voice what background I have and observe from my behaviour that I am heteosexual and able bodied, and I will happily put these on a form if I'm asked. But they don't give me a sense of who I am. This is because I sit at the top of the discrimination tree so my, sex, class, sexual orientation and ability have never been an issue for me. But if I were black, female, gay or disabled these would be major factors in how I felt about myself in relation to the rest of society. And equally, if I felt I was born in the wrong body, or did not feel comfortable conforming to gender norms, then this would be a huge part of my identity

As Hermann has correctly pointed out sex is biological and gender is a social construct. The law in this country is currently based on sex - if you have a scrotum and penis you are male and if you have ovaries and a vagina you are female. It is possible to transition from one to the other via complex and difficult surgery, but trans women by and large have not done this, so they remain, legally, men. This is a separate issue from their gender, or how they define themselves.

There have been people who do not conform to society imposed gender norms since the dawn of time, and all power to them; they contribute to the richness and diversity of society. If someone with a penis and beard wants to wear a dress, be called Susan, addressed as Ms and be accepted by society at large on these terms then they should be - it seems gratuitiously unpleasant not to grant them this simple request. But it is a huge leap to say that this person is a woman, and can use women only spaces and participate in women's sport, just because they feel they are. Yet this is a leap taken by a surprisingly large number of intelligent people who regard any discussion of the matter as hateful and therefore verboten. I do hope we come out of the other side of this and ask ourselves serious questions about how this was allowed to happen....
"self defined" as opposed to being "defined by others". "taking repsonsibility" as opposed to "denying responsibility" and allowing yourself to be "objectified by others"
not sure where the narcissism comes in.
 

arthur

Very well known Exeweb poster
Joined
Aug 18, 2004
Messages
11,484
"self defined" as opposed to being "defined by others". "taking repsonsibility" as opposed to "denying responsibility" and allowing yourself to be "objectified by others"
not sure where the narcissism comes in.
"You must validate about how I feel about myself, otherwise you are being hateful". A few years ago a delegate introduced themselves at the Labour Party Conference thus:

"I'm Sophie, Twickenham CLP, I'm a transwoman, a lesbian and a Pisces" (This was met with an interesting mixture of rapturous applause and stony silence from the comrades in the hall).

The point is that how she felt about her gender and sexuality were about as relevant as how she felt about her position on the astrological map. But we all had to hear it...
 
Top