UK and European Politics 2024 Thread

[BigBanker]

There's no problem with it. We need these roles filled. The problem lies with the current population, there's plenty work, but people either won't do it, or won't train themselves to do it. In fairness, why would someone work for minimum wage and live in a room in an hmo and have a few spare quid a week for the fruits of their labour. They can easily not work, be higher up the council housing register and have a few quid less, but do a side hustle fair more to make themselves better off?

So, in my view, you fill the vacancies, primarily with Brits, by improving educational services, giving decent quality housing to working people and ensuring salaries and benefits make work worthwhile. This is turn means that the need for immigration falls.When the population isn't growing by 500k/1 million a year with migrants the issue is far less in the public eye and no one will care as much.

All very sensible.

But instead the population has been whipped up into a frenzy over sending the boat people to Africa. It's almost as if those with the ultimate power (the mega rich) find this a very useful distraction, as they benefit the most from the inexpensive productivy provided by imported labour.

What will the more right wing amongst us think of spending more money on educating 'our own', especially if it's done by a Labour government?

 

[BigBanker]

You might ask why there's been so much legal migration. Its largely because the government has not intervened in planning what our economy should look like and ensuring it has a labour market to resource the economic model required.

Instead all this has been left to the free market which, I believe, you and your mates Truss and Frost strongly approve of.

Another striking irony Art, and one that hadn't occurred to me previously.

 

[tavyred]

How are we going to continue to drive your much celebrated one consecutive quarter of 0.6% GDP growth without the immigration labour?

Interesting to read that the last quarter saw the first rise (0.4%) in per capita GDP growth we’ve seen in many months, so it can be done.
As I’ve argued with Arthur before, you need a proper long term plan (yes, intervention!) in the economy that would probably involve a more punitive approach to our long term sickness problem. The encouragement for business to invest in a more proactive attitude to our systemic productivity problem also would help greatly. Too many of our firms are wedded to the idea of cheap unskilled labour.
I refuse to believe that you can only get growth by increasing the population exponentially every year.
Interesting to hear also a Government Minister on Newsnight the other day refuse to rule out blocking immigration from certain countries in the future, that would help solve perhaps the cultural issue where a lot of women folk in our immigrant communities never work.

 

[angelic upstart]

All very sensible.

But instead the population has been whipped up into a frenzy over sending the boat people to Africa. It's almost as if those with the ultimate power (the mega rich) find this a very useful distraction, as they benefit the most from the inexpensive productivy provided by imported labour.

What will the more right wing amongst us think of spending more money on educating 'our own', especially if it's done by a Labour government?

I'd envisage the UK right wing would want a more US style approach to working. Which is why the right wing have "claimed" Brexit as a right wing thing. Of course, in reality, it wasn't.

 

[tavyred]

Interesting side step

Patience.

 

[angelic upstart]

I refuse to believe that you can only get growth by increasing the population exponentially every year.
Interesting to hear also a Government Minister on Newsnight the other day refuse to rule out blocking immigration from certain countries in the future, that would help solve perhaps the cultural issue where a lot of women folk in our immigrant communities never work.

AI should be able to cover lots of future growth without the need population increase.
I actually think if the people of the west were paid sufficiently in the first place and family came before finance we could easily have a wife at home (if they want) like what happened back in the day. #imturningintoanamericanchristianevangelistovernight

 

[BigBanker]

Interesting to read that the last quarter saw the first rise (0.4%) in per capita GDP growth we’ve seen in many months, so it can be done.
As I’ve argued with Arthur before, you need a proper long term plan (yes, intervention!) in the economy that would probably involve a more punitive approach to our long term sickness problem. The encouragement for business to invest in a more proactive attitude to our systemic productivity problem also would help greatly. Too many of our firms are wedded to the idea of cheap unskilled labour.
I refuse to believe that you can only get growth by increasing the population exponentially every year.
Interesting to hear also a Government Minister on Newsnight the other day refuse to rule out blocking immigration from certain countries in the future, that would help solve perhaps the cultural issue where a lot of women folk in our immigrant communities never work.

There are 3 ways to grow an economy:

1) More producers (people)
2) Higher productivity amongst the existing producers (this has been a major struggle for developed economies for decades)
3) Debt

2 is obviously the most desirable, and AI might deliver it, but until then the choice really is 1 or 3. Take your pick.

 

[arthur]

Why referendums are a bad idea. One decision, taken on one day, cannot be questioned or reconsidered. Not an intelligent way of behaving, either for a person or a country.

 

[tavyred]

Why referendums are a bad idea. One decision, taken on one day, cannot be questioned or reconsidered. Not an intelligent way of behaving, either for a person or a country.

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I get that Brexit remains a great source of regret to you, but Brexit is still being constantly questioned (rightly) and because we live in a democracy it’s been reversible ever since June 2016.

 

[elginCity]

I get that Brexit remains a great source of regret to you, but Brexit is still being constantly questioned (rightly) and because we live in a democracy it’s been reversible ever since June 2016.

We live in a parliamentary democracy, a slim majority decision by 'The People', and not legally binding, should have been tested, questioned and reconsidered BEFORE triggering Article 50. Political dynamite undoubtedly, but acting in the national interest, which is supposedly what they're there to do. But of course we all know they only serve their own narrow self interest, propped up and sustained by the likes of you, Tav !

Cameron, May, Johnson & co have a lot to answer for, but sadly the questions won't ever be asked, see above.