Politics Today

[tavyred]

Someone called Tavyred took great issue with me a year or two ago when I talked about Brexit being bound up with English Nationalism and said, approximately, that I was talking rubbish.

I wonder what happened to him

Knowing you art, you probably linked the English and the Brexit vote and gave it a negative nationalist connotation. As far as I’m concerned English voters have a legitimate grievance as regards public funding and austerity and were ripe in 2016 to give the U.K establishment an electoral kicking, as they did.
If I recall correctly, I even admitted to being part motivated to vote Out as a way of ******* the SNP and Scottish Nationalists off.

 

[DB9]

Whatever side of the political divide you're on, There is only one word for this former Labour MP and in the words of Clinton Baptiste "I'm thinking of a word, That word is .......Nonce!"

Eric Joyce: Ex-Labour MP admits child sex offence

The ex-Army officer had a movie clip of children with one as young as 12 months old, a court hears.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[tavyred]

The supposed English 'grievance' regards the Barnet formula could be addressed by the British government, the formula is not set in stone.

As with the supposed English 'grievances' regards the EU, which could equally have been addressed by the British government.

You have to wonder whether the English nationalist/Brexiter ever considers the consequences of its ending a Union.

Should the 14 British Overseas Territories become English citizens by default, and the English taxpayer alone coughs up for their protection, or just keep the lucrative Cayman and Virgin islands ? British forces bases overseas in Cyprus and FI become English bases ? Monarchy ?

The next time the English decide to end a Union, I hope they've learned, and have a viable plan in place at the very least.

It’s a burgeoning a problem I think for Westminster in that the English electorate have got the perennial hump about stuff and if they don’t actually address their concerns then you can expect the English to vote like they did in 2016 and indeed 2019. The levelling agenda is a tacit acknowledgment by the Tories that England is being underfunded, although as Ive said it’s borderline meaningless if the disparity in funding is permanently maintained by Barnett.
The U.K. Government is scared witless of losing Scotland, so they’d rather keep Barnett and overfund Scotland and hope the English don’t notice.
The sands are shifting though, 60% of Tory voters are now seemingly not bothered if Scotland is in the Union and would be relaxed about them going.

 

[Legohead]

Whatever side of the political divide you're on, There is only one word for this former Labour MP and in the words of Clinton Baptiste "I'm thinking of a word, That word is .......Nonce!"

Eric Joyce: Ex-Labour MP admits child sex offence

The ex-Army officer had a movie clip of children with one as young as 12 months old, a court hears.

www.bbc.co.uk

IMO the number of kiddie fiddlers amongst politicians will be quite high. The ones that don't fall into this bracket are into weird sexual oddities / fantasies and affairs and the remainder are normal in terms of homosexual, heterosexual and do what normal people do with their partners. The upshot though is that a lot of them can't be trusted.

For some reason, power and status seems to create freaks in a lot of cases.

 

[IndoMike]

And today's REAL enemies managed to duck out early in WW1 and (conveniently) change sides in WW2.

Still, as long as, for the foreseeable future, the (now indefinite President) Putin has the electoral fate and grubby secrets of the right wing western politicians in his nasty little ex-KGB mitts I guess he, at least, can sleep soundly for the next decade.

Perhaps the same can be said for Trump/Johnson/Farage & Co - as long as they can continue to supress their own "electoral reviews".

All around the world there are so many awful leaders. It's like the world has gone collectively nuts. For every Merckel there is a Trump.
We can only hope that people realize that these populists don't give much of a damn about them. Look at the US : many governors insisting that the folks DON'T wear masks.

 

[IndoMike]

The distinction between nationalism and patriotism is one you choose to make not me.
To level up is to make something equal IMO, again the distinction you make is yours not mine. Although perhaps you are right, because by default unless you end the inbuilt system designed to favour one part of UK more than the other, then levelling up is a mere pipe dream.
Its certainly true that England does badly when it comes to public spending in comparison to the rest, there is no reason for that situation to exist other than an attempt to tie them to the Union IMO. A flipside of that situation is that England bears the brunt of the austerity years and lo and behold it drags Scotland out of the EU against its will.
Unless the English grievance is addressed the next UK schism is the end of the Union at the hands of the English. That said, Scottish independence is currently polling at 54%, here's hoping the Mad Jocks vote YES and with it instant penury.

It's not really a question of me choosing different meanings for "nationalism" and "patriotism" : there really is a difference. And if we add connotation to those two words the difference is even more pronounced .
I would like to say I'm not really a leftie from the perspective of an avetage leftie : I'm more a liberal with a small "l". But from the perspective of any Tory I guess I am a leftie.

 

[elginCity]

It’s a burgeoning a problem I think for Westminster in that the English electorate have got the perennial hump about stuff and if they don’t actually address their concerns then you can expect the English to vote like they did in 2016 and indeed 2019.

According to you, the English electorate has a 'legitimate grievance as regards public funding and austerity' yet repeatedly votes for the root cause this past 10 years, only this time with an 80 seat majority !

This stuff the English electorate has the perennial hump about is neither caused by membership of the EU, nor the union with Scotland. Blaming both, leaving both, won't solve anything, only create more grievance for the electorate. Surprised you can't see that Tavares.

"I even admitted to being part motivated to vote Out as a way of ******* the SNP and Scottish Nationalists off."

 

[tavyred]

According to you, the English electorate has a 'legitimate grievance as regards public funding and austerity' yet repeatedly votes for the root cause this past 10 years, only this time with an 80 seat majority !

This stuff the English electorate has the perennial hump about is neither caused by membership of the EU, nor the union with Scotland. Blaming both, leaving both, won't solve anything, only create more grievance for the electorate. Surprised you can't see that Tavares.

"I even admitted to being part motivated to vote Out as a way of ******* the SNP and Scottish Nationalists off."

You misunderstand Elgy,
I’m not saying the resultant voting patterns of the aggrieved English are based on cast iron logic, you actually have a point when you say they aren’t.
I’m also not saying I’m a bell-weather for English voting intentions but electorates can be vindictive and illogical when their opinion is periodically tested at GE’s and referendums.
Speaking personally, I’m not voting for your status quo when the status quo means English public services are underfunded and ergo the outcomes for my family are adversely effected.

 

[Grecian2K]

You misunderstand Elgy,
I’m not saying the resultant voting patterns of the aggrieved English are based on cast iron logic, you actually have a point when you say they aren’t.
I’m also not saying I’m a bell-weather for English voting intentions but electorates can be vindictive and illogical when their opinion is periodically tested at GE’s and referendums.
Speaking personally, I’m not voting for your status quo when the status quo means English public services are underfunded and ergo the outcomes for my family are adversely effected.

O M G ... where to start???
Apart from the obvious, inescapable FACT that, at least in recent years, "English" public services (and, to an admitted extent, elsewhere in what used to be called the UNITED kingdom) have been decimated by a decade of "Osbornomics" and cruel, cynical, "Austerity"...[and even you can't blame Labour for that philosophy...unless it's because they lost the chance to save us from it!!!) your comment about the bell-WETHER (not "weather" by the way) might actually have some validity.

The bell-WETHER is traditionally a randy old ram, with more offspring than he could possibly count on his cloven hooves who has, for a brief while, a bell hung from his neck to charm and try to seduce the rest of the ignorant flock toward the dip and, ultimately, the slaughter house.

Remind you of any one (or ONES if you cast your glance across the Atlantic)?

But once his seed has been spend, and the farmers have decided his seed has been spent, he might well join the rest of the flock on the meat counter as mutton....although, to be fair, if he has been spectacularly priapic he might be spared to spend his dotage as a tame retiree in the "petting zoo"...or, as it's known in parliamentary circles, the HOUSE OF LORDS.

Still, keep tugging at that saggy old foreLOCK Tavers? I'm sure that someone, somewhere in the blue circles might one day consider rewarding you with a "gong" for your ever-loyal devotion.

 

[elginCity]

Tavy, the other day you were rejoicing the fact there's to be no extension beyond December, because you voted for it, you said.

Realistically, we're now heading for a no deal situation, far worse than any half-baked oven-ready job desperately cooked up by Frost & co, and substantially worse than the deal we currently enjoy.

There will be few winners as a result. Do you foresee Johnson's hedge fund backers ploughing their ill-gotten gains into the public purse to fund public services for you and your family ? If not, where else do you imagine the tax take is going to come from ?

Or, are you just trolling ?