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Sol Campbell to Macclesfield?

John William

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In the absence of knowledge of the cohort from which choices are being made all this is pointless. Assuming the average manager is say 45 years old with at least 10 years experience since retiring, the pool of qualified black ex-players is smaller than it might appear. And that's without the huge numbers on non-UK coaches being preferred to local ones, which again reduces the opportunities for black ex-players (and white English ones...)
 

CREDYGRECIAN

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Loving the free flowing entertaining football at S
Coaching England under21 with some of the most talented young players in Europe or take the Macclesfield job who are heading back into non league , black or white he must be nuts
 

IndoMike

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Remind me again what colour Noel Blake was?
I'm clearly talking about the ratio of black managers to the 92 clubs in the leagues.
 

IndoMike

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In the absence of knowledge of the cohort from which choices are being made all this is pointless. Assuming the average manager is say 45 years old with at least 10 years experience since retiring, the pool of qualified black ex-players is smaller than it might appear. And that's without the huge numbers on non-UK coaches being preferred to local ones, which again reduces the opportunities for black ex-players (and white English ones...)
Are there no black non-UK coaches? You can pontificate all you want, but clearly there is and always has been a dearth of black managers in English football, no matter how you try to paint it.
 

ramone

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If i had to agree with you we would both be wrong
 

John William

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Are there no black non-UK coaches? You can pontificate all you want, but clearly there is and always has been a dearth of black managers in English football, no matter how you try to paint it.
I'm not pontificating, as you put it, I'll leave that to you. I'm doing the opposite: saying that pontificating about these things without evidence is unhelpful, and that when there is evidence it usually shows that these things are not as clear cut as some people try to make them.

I have no idea if there is genuinely "institutional racism" in play here, and I suspect neither have you.

So let us know what percentage of black managers there should be in English football, and how many there actually are, and we can get a better view of whether something dubious is going on.

As I see it, almost all managers are retired players. There are thousands of them, and can only be 92 managers in the top 4 leagues, many of whom are currently from white European and South American backgrounds. As there were few black players in UK professional football until relatively recently, and you generally need to be an experienced and qualified ex-player to be in the selection group, it's actually not that surprising that relatively few have yet made it through.

I would actually not be surprised if these is some hesitation in a business as bizarre as professional football to appoint black managers, but I have no idea whether this is actually the case and don't think it's sensible to make accusations without something to back it up. If there is evidence (rather than assertion) that black ex-players are being systematically disregarded for jobs for which they are qualified and have applied, then that's different. So let's have it, I haven't seen any yet.
 

IndoMike

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I'm not pontificating, as you put it, I'll leave that to you. I'm doing the opposite: saying that pontificating about these things without evidence is unhelpful, and that when there is evidence it usually shows that these things are not as clear cut as some people try to make them.

I have no idea if there is genuinely "institutional racism" in play here, and I suspect neither have you.

So let us know what percentage of black managers there should be in English football, and how many there actually are, and we can get a better view of whether something dubious is going on.

As I see it, almost all managers are retired players. There are thousands of them, and can only be 92 managers in the top 4 leagues, many of whom are currently from white European and South American backgrounds. As there were few black players in UK professional football until relatively recently, and you generally need to be an experienced and qualified ex-player to be in the selection group, it's actually not that surprising that relatively few have yet made it through.

I would actually not be surprised if these is some hesitation in a business as bizarre as professional football to appoint black managers, but I have no idea whether this is actually the case and don't think it's sensible to make accusations without something to back it up. If there is evidence (rather than assertion) that black ex-players are being systematically disregarded for jobs for which they are qualified and have applied, then that's different. So let's have it, I haven't seen any yet.
For example (The Independent /June 2018)
"Since 2000, the proportion of black footballers playing for England has risen, but while 25 per cent of white players have been given a managerial job since retirement, that drops to just 10 per cent for black players. And if you are an aspiring black English manager with a stellar playing career behind you, you’d better get a move on: no black England footballer has ever been offered his first managerial job more than a year after retirement".
I have never mentioned the word "institutionalized" so you don't need to put it in inverted commas. I just stated the facts - there are many data to support the fact that there is an imbalance between the hiring of ethnic minorities compared to white guys. Whether it is institutionalized or not I wouldn't be able to confirm, but it seems a strange coincidence.
 
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