Caldwell out?

[The 3 United's]

I know it's difficult on here to tell when someone's being sarcastic or sincere, sometimes, but come on guys... I said a good manager who showed ambition would have Watkins and Ampadu deciding to stay with us.

Unfortunately money usually talks(something ECFC don't have a lot of compared with other clubs, many of whom are lower down the pyramid than ourselves), rather than ambition. Ollie was persuaded to stay with us a little longer and has reaped a massive reward. Maybe this will happen with Sonny?

 

[edwin_price]

Unfortunately money usually talks(something ECFC don't have a lot of compared with other clubs, many of whom are lower down the pyramid than ourselves), rather than ambition. Ollie was persuaded to stay with us a little longer and has reaped a massive reward. Maybe this will happen with Sonny?

It's not just money. He's an international level striker. Depending on how wide you want to draw the definition, you could reasonably say he's one of the finest centre forwards on the planet. It would be absurd for him to stick with us.

 

[Grecian2K]

Can't deny that Amps was seduced by the sparkling lights of the "Chelsea Unused Talent Vault" but Ollie did choose to stay with us, honing his skills, into his twenties.!
A trajectory that Sonny has now committed himself to. Indeed one my even suggest that at the moment he his further ahead than even Ollie was at that age. As long as he continues to develop his form and fitness with us over the next two or three years, who knows???? He might even grow to eventually transcend even Ollie - but certainly not in L1 or L2 (or even the Championship)

 

[Boyo]

At the time the decision was made to stick with him, that was 'potentially fatal' too.

Which is why the likes of RFS acting all high and mighty about it is arrogant in the extreme.

It's going over old ground, but why would I need to know who the replacement would have been? Was Caldwell on your radar before he got the job? He certainly wasn't on mine. Nor was Tisdale. Or Inglethorpe.

There's no doubt for me that most clubs would have sacked him after Fleetwood or Bolton, back in November, and based on results that would have been fully justified. I think the context tells a different story however, primarily the ridiculous injury list we had and the lack of forward options. I note we started with Muskwe and Scott up front at Fleetwood, and Diabate(!) and Aitchison at Bolton.

So whereas I was massively concerned, I didn't think that sacking him was the right move. Frankly we could have had Pep or Jurgen in charge and I don't think they'd have been able to do much with what was available at the time. Of course GC has overall responsibility for recruitment, but again for me there was context in the summer, with having so many players leave.

So whereas we don't need to know who any replacement would be, we would have needed to be confident that someone else could have done a better job and produced better results. For me he never "lost" the players, which I think is a really important indicator. Additionally, whereas it was on record that we could afford to sack him, it would nevertheless have cost us a chunk of money that I suspect has been invested into the squad in January.

So I'm glad we didn't sack him and I think the results since Boxing Day, just about vindicate that. Sure the football has been frustrating at times, but I think we're moving in the right direction. I've mentioned before that modern football is stats-led, possession-based, and that very much feels like the road we are on. Personally I buy into that style, but then I think Man City are wonderful to watch, whereas I know many people who find them boring.

 

[BigBanker]

There's no doubt for me that most clubs would have sacked him after Fleetwood or Bolton, back in November, and based on results that would have been fully justified. I think the context tells a different story however, primarily the ridiculous injury list we had and the lack of forward options. I note we started with Muskwe and Scott up front at Fleetwood, and Diabate(!) and Aitchison at Bolton.

So whereas I was massively concerned, I didn't think that sacking him was the right move. Frankly we could have had Pep or Jurgen in charge and I don't think they'd have been able to do much with what was available at the time. Of course GC has overall responsibility for recruitment, but again for me there was context in the summer, with having so many players leave.

So whereas we don't need to know who any replacement would be, we would have needed to be confident that someone else could have done a better job and produced better results. For me he never "lost" the players, which I think is a really important indicator. Additionally, whereas it was on record that we could afford to sack him, it would nevertheless have cost us a chunk of money that I suspect has been invested into the squad in January.

So I'm glad we didn't sack him and I think the results since Boxing Day, just about vindicate that. Sure the football has been frustrating at times, but I think we're moving in the right direction. I've mentioned before that modern football is stats-led, possession-based, and that very much feels like the road we are on. Personally I buy into that style, but then I think Man City are wonderful to watch, whereas I know many people who find them boring.

And this is a measured and fair position, in stark contrast to @Radio Free Skaro who seems to think that those of us who thought he should be fact are 'idiots' with a short-termist view.

 

[Grecian Max]

So I'm glad we didn't sack him and I think the results since Boxing Day, just about vindicate that.

On this, I completely agree

The board have been vindicated, or at least look likely to be

I've mentioned before that modern football is stats-led, possession-based, and that very much feels like the road we are on. Personally I buy into that style, but then I think Man City are wonderful to watch, whereas I know many people who find them boring.

We're currently 32 goals behind last season's tally with 8 games to go - I'd buy into our style if we can convert better next year. Perhaps some more recruitment will get us there.

 

[Mid Devon Grecian]

Fair enough and you might well be right he doesn’t get the best out of the squad, but playing pin the donkey half way through the season to replace him with no real idea of who that would have been would have been potentially fatal

On the flip side, if the run we were on up to Christmas had continued that would also have been potentially fatal.

We seem to lack resilience/confidence as a team, takes very little to knock us off course. Important part of management is motivation and personal development of the squad. GC seems to be into this sort of thing which is why I find it odd we have these periods of self doubt that are evident on the pitch regularly.

 

[Snoop Fog]

Proof is in the pudding next year now

Must see improvements and not another season like this

I think last season 22/23 was also poor but Caldwell was given the benefit of the doubt as he'd inherited MT's team mid season and rightly deserved time but lets not forget we went on a really poor run of 6 defeats if my memory serves me correctly, which included the 6 nil thrashing by Ipswich. The season ended on a high with the Stanno hat trick to beat Morecambe at home which masked the general feeling of negativity that had started to creep in.

This season has been really topsy turvy, credit where its due it looks like we're staying up, but we've had some horrendous results, and a mid season run of form as bad as I can ever remember and which has created a negativity towards Caldwell from some fans who will now never change their opinion on him.

Next season we have to show more consistency with results and to achieve this we need to be able to play more ways than just the one dimension of Caldwell ball.

 

[Grecian2K]

Just to add a bit of historical perspective, IF??? we manage to stay up this season - by whatever means - it still mist rank with some of the better spells of the ECFC story?
Since the introduction of the "4 tier system" our record at this level has been:
1964-66: 2 Seasons: 17th and 22nd
1990-92: 4 Seasons: 16th, 20th, 19th and 22nd
2009-12: 3 Seasons: 18th, 8th and 23rd
Only in, what for we Ancient Greeks still fondly look back upon as our golden era:
1977-84: 7 Seasons, did we manage a sustained run at this level - and even then in 4 of those we ended up below half way.
It is salutary to note that ALL of those ended in some degree of financial crisis that could have ended our club.

It maybe cautionary to consider that many of those supporters of other "big-bollox-minnows" - Hereford, Oldham, York, and Yeovil are just that immediately spring to mind who enjoyed fleeting moments "Championship Glory" or even above there - ended up deep in the doogy-do.

It's not "lack of ambition" - it's reality for clubs of our size.

 

[Benjisheps14]

There's no doubt for me that most clubs would have sacked him after Fleetwood or Bolton, back in November, and based on results that would have been fully justified. I think the context tells a different story however, primarily the ridiculous injury list we had and the lack of forward options. I note we started with Muskwe and Scott up front at Fleetwood, and Diabate(!) and Aitchison at Bolton.

So whereas I was massively concerned, I didn't think that sacking him was the right move. Frankly we could have had Pep or Jurgen in charge and I don't think they'd have been able to do much with what was available at the time. Of course GC has overall responsibility for recruitment, but again for me there was context in the summer, with having so many players leave.

So whereas we don't need to know who any replacement would be, we would have needed to be confident that someone else could have done a better job and produced better results. For me he never "lost" the players, which I think is a really important indicator. Additionally, whereas it was on record that we could afford to sack him, it would nevertheless have cost us a chunk of money that I suspect has been invested into the squad in January.

So I'm glad we didn't sack him and I think the results since Boxing Day, just about vindicate that. Sure the football has been frustrating at times, but I think we're moving in the right direction. I've mentioned before that modern football is stats-led, possession-based, and that very much feels like the road we are on. Personally I buy into that style, but then I think Man City are wonderful to watch, whereas I know many people who find them boring.

A very balanced and well articulated post Boyo that I agree with. I believed GC was gone after the Bolton result, and if he had been sacked I could totally of understood it from the board. Rightly or wrongly the board chose to stick with him and I would agree that since Boxing day our 25 points in 17 games is a good return. I still understand why some people aren't on board and need convincing especially when you look at our lack of goals, and hopefully that will be rectified this summer........FINALLY!