International relations thread

[arthur]

I think you'd find that if Ukraine's existence depended on it, and they possessed nuclear weapons, they'd have used them Art.

Knowing that they'd have been instantly wiped out by Putin? I thought nuclear weapons were supposed to be a deterrent... Putin's nukes would, according to Alistair, have deterred Zelenski from using his

 

[Grecian2K]

This.

Mind you, based on the recent examples I fear that any of those mega-expensive Yankee fireworks that Lockheed pushed on to us were fired from Faslane it would not be the residents of Moscow who would be trembling...more likely the good folk of Milngavie or Motherwell.

 

[Alistair20000]

Knowing that they'd have been instantly wiped out by Putin? I thought nuclear weapons were supposed to be a deterrent... Putin's nukes would, according to Alistair, have deterred Zelenski from using his

You have heard of Mutually Assured Destruction art. A principle that avoided use of nuclear weapons during the Cold War.

Don't you find it odd that countries that have these weapons do not want to give them up and others are trying to acquire them and yet you want to give them up.

 

[Alistair20000]

Mind you, based on the recent examples I fear that any of those mega-expensive Yankee fireworks that Lockheed pushed on to us were fired from Faslane it would not be the residents of Moscow who would be trembling...more likely the good folk of Milngavie or Motherwell.

Yes a fair point based on the trial. Hopefully the problems are being addressed.

 

[Spanks]

Knowing that they'd have been instantly wiped out by Putin? I thought nuclear weapons were supposed to be a deterrent... Putin's nukes would, according to Alistair, have deterred Zelenski from using his

Well, yes Art. You're being unusually silly with this one.

I literally wrote "that if Ukrainian existence depended on it", i.e. if they wouldn't exist anyway without the use of it, then they surely would use the ultimate deterrent, because they'd be going to hell in a handcart anyways. The point is moot, because Vlad wouldn't have gone near Kiev if they'd still possessed them.

 

[Phil Sayers]

To give a real world example (aside from the bombs on Japan I think probably the only time using nuclear weapons has been seriously considered) the Israeli war cabinet in 1973 were completely stunned at the outset of the war and had provisionally decided to use nuclear weapons if the situation got to one where either Syria or Egypt were able to sever Israel into two or more parts by reaching the sea. It was Nixon and Kissinger discovering that thinking (and concluding they couldn't really object both because they thought that would be their decision too if they were in Israel's shoes and also because they weren't meant to know Israel's thinking / that they had the bomb) that was part of the reason for a massive airlift of conventional weapons.

There was all-round misunderstanding on all sides in that it looked to Israel like Syria and Egypt were intent and capable of removing Israel from the map, in which case they had decided (whether they would have gone through with it is an unknown) to use nuclear weapons to prevent the existential destruction of the country. On the Syrian / Egyptian side they did not know that Israel had nukes (don't know whether they suspected it but they didn't know for sure) but in any event they were not trying to wipe Israel out but instead just recover what they had lost in 1967. I suspect that if they had known for sure that Israel had nukes it would not have deterred their actual goal (because they figured Israel would not go nuclear over the Sinai and Golan Heights) but probably would have deterred their perceived goal and had them on the phone to Israel saying 'we are not coming for Tel Aviv, you are not in an existential situation'.

All supposition but I think the most likely effect of a nuclear-armed Ukraine would have been Putin not feeling much / at all deterred about trying to take the remainder of the Donbas but would have deterred his wider goal of completely conquering the country.

 

[DB9]

I wish the Navalny (RIP) funeral was a catalyst for something else.

 

[Radio Free Skaro]

Russia claiming that UK troops are on the ground in Ukraine. Should we be pleased , not surprised or worried if this is the case?

 

[iscalad]

Russia claiming that UK troops are on the ground in Ukraine. Should we be pleased , not surprised or worried if this is the case?

Ask the Germans, they seem to know all about it.

 

[Radio Free Skaro]

Ask the Germans, they seem to know all about it.

why Is that significant.