20 Years of Trust

[elginCity]

I would definitely support that. My difficulty comes in believing that would ever happen. I very much doubt anyone would buy into our club without wanting majority control. At York City it's 51/49 in favour of '394 Sports'. The people behind the company have no prior affinity with York City.

Exactly, that is the problem with this 'hybrid' idea, who would invest a significant sum without wanting ownership/control in exchange ? Even a benefactor in the mould of a 'local lad done good' type such as a Majedski or a Whelan would want control. Reading and Wigan the blueprint.

 

[SaintJames]

Exactly, that is the problem with this 'hybrid' idea, who would invest a significant sum without wanting ownership/control in exchange ? Even a benefactor in the mould of a 'local lad done good' type such as a Majedski or a Whelan would want control. Reading and Wigan the blueprint.

We are getting used to that model where someone takes total control. However, we can compare and contrast other clubs who contain a mix of shareholders with 5% up to 40% just to be involved with a football club or be a part of the boardroom. Things don't have to be black or white, all or nothing

 

[Grecian Max]

I would definitely support that. My difficulty comes in believing that would ever happen. I very much doubt anyone would buy into our club without wanting majority control. At York City it's 51/49 in favour of '394 Sports'. The people behind the company have no prior affinity with York City.

Again this is based on supposition only, mixed with a little bit of fear too.

In terms of the question "would this ever happen" - why not would be my response. No one would have said in 2003 that they could see The Trust owning the club for 20 years and becoming a League One club. Why can't we be trailblazers in our next evolution on how our club is run?

The only reason I mentioned York was because you brought it up, it's not my example of how it's done. You said it ended badly when actually they went and secured another buyer.

 

[Grecian Max]

Exactly, that is the problem with this 'hybrid' idea, who would invest a significant sum without wanting ownership/control in exchange ? Even a benefactor in the mould of a 'local lad done good' type such as a Majedski or a Whelan would want control. Reading and Wigan the blueprint.

Are Reading and Wigan the modern blueprint? Both of those injections of cash happened before The Trust took over so feels like quite a dated reference. Again a lot of assumptions being made around investment, which happens quite a lot around this conversation.

 

[Grecian Max]

It''s a pertinent question as ironically the more successful we become under Trust ownership the higher those expectations are raised. Gary himself is raising those expectations and for the first time in our history I believe people are beginning to look upwards. Let me be clear what I mean. I don't mean I hear people getting carried away with becoming a Championship team regularly but the expectations of what we are as a club are so much higher than what they were ten years ago. Ten years ago on the whole the fan base was satisfied with ongoing survival off the pitch and doing as well as we could in L2. Five years ago expectations were around being a Top 7 League Two Club. Three years ago to achieve promotion from League two once again.

What has been achieved in the past five years off the pitch has been incredible with the transformation of SJP, the Training ground and pitches. However, that has been matched by the football itself as a L1 club and with record levels of season ticket sales and attendances exceeding the norm. So the new 'normal' has changed and therefore expectations will change with it. My expectations have changed considerably not because I have suddenly become risk averse but if the club fails to recognise and plan for the future it will go backwards. My expectations for my club have always been historically set namely we are a bang average league two club with an occasional promotion and cup run and as long as we are solvent then fair enough. However, record season ticket sales and regular sell outs paint a story of an appetite that isn't based around the old normal. The old normal means I expect to get relegated from this division within the next two seasons. My new normal means I expect my club to now become an established league one club. I'm not yet expecting promotion but I am looking up the table to the point where if we haven't finished higher than 8th within three seasons (hopefully two) I will be a little disappointed. I don't expect to suddenly become an established Top Five L1 team overnight but after becoming set in L1 that has to become the next ambition.

We have a Manager that could imo achieve those ambitions. However, we all recognise that miracles don't grow on trees. We are building the infrastructure to achieve success but can the current ownership who have rightly achieved that success look over the parapit and build the finances necessary to continue upward momentum? If they are confident they can that's fine but if there is a gap that looks difficult to breach in say three years time then you have imo a duty to consider various options now and not wait until it's too late. That doesn't mean an all out sale. It would be reckless to assume we have another series of Ampudu's and Watkins to come. You only need look at this summer where we have grossed in the region of £2.5M in sales to realise that those monies will only keep us a little above where we are now for the next 3 years. To fund growth again will be a tough challenge based solely on big player sales.

To conclude I see no immediate concerns however in business as soon as you are comfortable, malaise can set in. Now is the best time to look at what the club needs in 3-5 years time not wait till the opportunities dry up

This is a great post and sums up my thoughts more eloquently than my own. I want to see a development of the current model to allow more slack for more, but measured success. I don't care about seeing City in the Championship but I do want us to become a solid League One side. With a ground we own and a secured future. Seat on the board and some good people working towards the goal.

The ground question is important and we shouldn't bury our heads in the sand, similar to the threat of Argyle getting the cream of the talent. Hawker sounded bullish when that was mentioned at the fans forum however nothing stands still. If Argyle become the Bristol City of Devon with an academy machine that is just higher level it'll hit us hard. 20 years old and the thing that we get reminded about every time we sell a player is that it'll keep us going for another 2/3 years - often in official interviews.

Improve, evolve when you're on top because it gets a lot more desperate when you're not.

 

[C j phill]

Deloittes appear to be the leading consultancy in terms of knowledge of the Premiership and EFL, producing an annual report of how each is operating and progressing.

A few years ago, when I was on the Trust Board, I suggested that the Club engage Deloittes, to review how they might capitalise in being a "Fans Owned" Club commercially, with a view to increasing income. However, this didnt gain any traction, either at Trust or Club Board level.

I'm committed to the current ownership model, but I think that an independent, professional review of the Trust/Club operations, focusing on how the Trust/Club could move towards increasing its income, or maximising investment, would be helpful to inform the questions that are being posed throughout this trail.

Perhaps an AGM resolution along the lines that the Trust engage Deloittes (or any other professional consultancy/body) to review Trust/Club operations and make recommendations that would increase Club income or investment whilst maintaining the Trust's majority ownership, with the report to be made available to all Trust members within six months of the Trust AGM date, might be a way forward.

 

[Grecian Max]

Without fan ownership attending matches would have no meaning for me. I guess it is selfish. But nobody wants to attend something that they regard as meaningless. I respect the will of my fellow supporters if they want to relinquish control then I will just say Thank You and Goodbye.

It wouldn't be meaningless and actually disrespects the history of this club - supporting your local team is what it should be about. If you want political statements, Clapton or St Pauli English supporters club would be better suited to you.

 

[ExmouthMart]

This is largely true, but I would argue it is actually true for a lot of clubs. Whilst it is also true that many supporters will still support City with new owners, uou must accept that there will also be many that won't. Many people believe in Supporter Ownership and value the sense of ownership that it brings.

You don’t just abandon the Club. How many do you think would not support City with new owners?! Supporter ownership sounds great but you don’t actually ‘own’ your Club do you. I pay £3 a month which is ridiculous. It’s just a token gesture.
No one in their right mind is going to hand over their money for someone else to spend. Significant investment will mean change of ownership. The problem then would be you would only buy the name as all the assets are owned by others. Perhaps the way forward is a franchise like MK Dons…….

 

[lamrobhero]

It wouldn't be meaningless and actually disrespects the history of this club - supporting your local team is what it should be about. If you want political statements, Clapton or St Pauli English supporters club would be better suited to you.

Telling other people how they should feel is the norm for a large number of modern politicians. Maybe you should take it up?

 

[ExmouthMart]

Deloittes appear to be the leading consultancy in terms of knowledge of the Premiership and EFL, producing an annual report of how each is operating and progressing.

A few years ago, when I was on the Trust Board, I suggested that the Club engage Deloittes, to review how they might capitalise in being a "Fans Owned" Club commercially, with a view to increasing income. However, this didnt gain any traction, either at Trust or Club Board level.

I'm committed to the current ownership model, but I think that an independent, professional review of the Trust/Club operations, focusing on how the Trust/Club could move towards increasing its income, or maximising investment, would be helpful to inform the questions that are being posed throughout this trail.

Perhaps an AGM resolution along the lines that the Trust engage Deloittes (or any other professional consultancy/body) to review Trust/Club operations and make recommendations that would increase Club income or investment whilst maintaining the Trust's majority ownership, with the report to be made available to all Trust members within six months of the Trust AGM date, might be a way forward.

Isn’t that what the new CEO and CFO should be looking at amongst other things. Isn’t that their core role to manage and grow the product?! Don’t forget a significant amount of budget is being invested in these roles and everyone should be able to see a growth pattern emerging within a certain timescale. Endless focus groups and five year plans doesn’t really work for football. Influence on the pitch is the measure of success for most supporters.