WC England - Overrated?

[IndoMike]

For me the positives were that
1. We had a calm and humble manager who could manage the team well with seemingly no shenanigans or dummy out-spitting.
2. We picked up few cards and behaved well on the pitch.
3. Our fans didn't embarrass us (well they wouldn't fancy life in Siberia, I guess)
4. Pickford, Maguire, Stevens, Trippier, Walker & Henderson (for his immense effort) all made praiseworthy efforts
5. The team showed inner strength and discipline especially in the matches v Panama and Columbia
6. We reached the semi-finals
7. We have half a team battle-hardened and good enough for the next international competition

There were negatives, *although I know that Southgate was very limited in his choices
1. We persevered too long with Delli Ali, Sterling and Lingard on the field at the same time
2. We had nobody to control midfield
3. Kane was to some extent isolated
4. *Perhaps Southgate could have varied things a bit

 

[Banksy]

Good post Mike , agree with most of it , point one especially.We are still very much work in progress but there is hope for the future for a change.

 

[grecIAN Harris]

For me the positives were that
1. We had a calm and humble manager who could manage the team well with seemingly no shenanigans or dummy out-spitting.
2. We picked up few cards and behaved well on the pitch.
3. Our fans didn't embarrass us (well they wouldn't fancy life in Siberia, I guess)
4. Pickford, Maguire, Stevens, Trippier, Walker & Henderson (for his immense effort) all made praiseworthy efforts
5. The team showed inner strength and discipline especially in the matches v Panama and Columbia
6. We reached the semi-finals
7. We have half a team battle-hardened and good enough for the next international competition

There were negatives, *although I know that Southgate was very limited in his choices
1. We persevered too long with Delli Ali, Sterling and Lingard on the field at the same time
2. We had nobody to control midfield
3. Kane was to some extent isolated
4. *Perhaps Southgate could have varied things a bit

The one thing you missed is that we potentially have so much more coming up through the ranks given last summers successes with the junior teams. Hopefully we have somebody who can control the game from midfield in the position that Henderson/Dier play. Neither of them have the brain, most importantly, or the ability to fill the role. The only person near capable of playing the role at the moment was sunning himself on the banks of the Tyne but the problem with Jonjo Shelvey is that there are major question marks over his discipline. The other the player we need is somebody who can occupy defenders in behind their defensive line but when they get there is able to put the ball in the back of the net or produce a decent pass/cross rather than look like a rabbit in the headlights like Sterling.

 

[IndoMike]

The one thing you missed is that we potentially have so much more coming up through the ranks given last summers successes with the junior teams. Hopefully we have somebody who can control the game from midfield in the position that Henderson/Dier play. Neither of them have the brain, most importantly, or the ability to fill the role. The only person near capable of playing the role at the moment was sunning himself on the banks of the Tyne but the problem with Jonjo Shelvey is that there are major question marks over his discipline. The other the player we need is somebody who can occupy defenders in behind their defensive line but when they get there is able to put the ball in the back of the net or produce a decent pass/cross rather than look like a rabbit in the headlights like Sterling.

I didn't really miss the lads coming up through the ranks because my comments were related to this World Cup, but I agree that in theory we have players who have won WC at different age levels. But will they get a chance in the PL?
Shelvey would have gotten a red card v Panama or Columbia (facepalm)
Yep, when Sterling in an England shirt gets a chance to shoot he just seems to get totally befuddled, but he wasn't the only one in this WC to shoot poorly.

 

[grecIAN Harris]

I didn't really miss the lads coming up through the ranks because my comments were related to this World Cup, but I agree that in theory we have players who have won WC at different age levels. But will they get a chance in the PL?
Shelvey would have gotten a red card v Panama or Columbia (facepalm)
Yep, when Sterling in an England shirt gets a chance to shoot he just seems to get totally befuddled, but he wasn't the only one in this WC to shoot poorly.

What I meant by that was the ongoing positives for England and future competitions. Will they get a chance in the Premier League? Well Pep seems intent on given Phil Foden a chance at City. Maybe some will have to do as Loftus Cheek has done and go to somewhere where they know they will get a game to prove a point to the own clubs. As for Shelvey, I wouldn't be quite so dismissive. He was starting to show a lot maturity in his game towards the back end of the season and I read an article last week in Four Four Two whilst I was waiting in Specsavers about how he is seeing a sports psychologist to help control the red mists that he suffers from. I couldn't find that one online but did find this one, https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/why-jonjo-shelvey-does-deserve-a-place-englands-world-cup-squad, which explains exactly why I think he should have been in this squad and should be in every England squad. For all his other faults he has that one gift that would have got us further in the competition that no other player in the current squad has. We have a lot of players who are technically good when it comes to touch and control but they lack footballing awareness and intelligence when it comes to reading the game.
As for Sterling, if he could shoot poorly in the first place it would be a massive step in the right direction. He just doesn't shoot at all.

 

[IndoMike]

What I meant by that was the ongoing positives for England and future competitions. Will they get a chance in the Premier League? Well Pep seems intent on given Phil Foden a chance at City. Maybe some will have to do as Loftus Cheek has done and go to somewhere where they know they will get a game to prove a point to the own clubs. As for Shelvey, I wouldn't be quite so dismissive. He was starting to show a lot maturity in his game towards the back end of the season and I read an article last week in Four Four Two whilst I was waiting in Specsavers about how he is seeing a sports psychologist to help control the red mists that he suffers from. I couldn't find that one online but did find this one, https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/why-jonjo-shelvey-does-deserve-a-place-englands-world-cup-squad, which explains exactly why I think he should have been in this squad and should be in every England squad. For all his other faults he has that one gift that would have got us further in the competition that no other player in the current squad has. We have a lot of players who are technically good when it comes to touch and control but they lack footballing awareness and intelligence when it comes to reading the game.
As for Sterling, if he could shoot poorly in the first place it would be a massive step in the right direction. He just doesn't shoot at all.

Yes, many people were campaigning for Shelvey to be included in the squad, and I can see why, especially if he is dealing with his red mist. I also agree that Sterling is very hesitant when he gets into dangerous positions : Lingard is a bit like that, too. As I said above, I would have had selected Lingard or Sterling, but not both, while strengthening midfield. However, we didn't really have that midfielder available.
The PL as we know is making the rich clubs richer and harming the development of our young players, who do well until it's time to step up, whereupon they are farned out.

 

[Antony Moxey]

Shelvey. If he’s our Modric, Kante or Hazard then we may as well give up and go home. There’s a reason he wasn’t in the squad and it had nothing to with him being a tw@t every time he laced up a pair of boots.

 

[grecIAN Harris]

Shelvey. If he’s our Modric, Kante or Hazard then we may as well give up and go home. There’s a reason he wasn’t in the squad and it had nothing to with him being a tw@t every time he laced up a pair of boots.

He's certainly not a Hazard as he doesn't run with the ball near enough nor is he a holding midfielder like Kante and he is far more visionary than Kante with his passing and no he isn't as good as Modric but he is a damn sight better option than either Henderson or Dier when we need somebody who can read the game and pick the right pass.

 

[CREDYGRECIAN]

Harris behave yourself - he’s not in the same league as Henderson or Dier & is an absolute gob-ache as well....

England missed Oxlade-Chamberlain, he was excellent for Liverpool up until his injury and and is so good at breaking the lines between midfield and attack something he we miss massively

Jack Whilshire should also of gone ahead of Delph

 

[grecIAN Harris]

Harris behave yourself - he’s not in the same league as Henderson or Dier & is an absolute gob-ache as well....

England missed Oxlade-Chamberlain, he was excellent for Liverpool up until his injury and and is so good at breaking the lines between midfield and attack something he we miss massively

Jack Whilshire should also of gone ahead of Delph

Neither Henderson or Dier can pass a ball with any kind of vision, ie the sort of passes that can unlock a defence. There is nobody in the England squad like it. We needed somebody to pull the strings when had the ball. Half the time Hendersons second touch was recovering a mis-control and Dier doesn't have the energy Henderson has. The Ox would have given you something better than Lingard or Alli (or at least on Alli's performances in the World Cup) but nothing different to what we had and probably would have started had he been there. Anybody could have gone ahead of Delph...………. well almost anybody as Lloyd James sprang to mind. As for Wilshere, when he can complete more than half a season without being injured for the other half or when he does actually complete more than half a season without getting injured at selection time, then we'll talk about him. Until then, regardless of how good you or I think he might be, we're wasting our breath.